A challenge to the Indian communities of Malaysia to prove that they are as they often assert through their elected and unelected mouth pieces that they are:
a) a disadvantaged community
b) a marginalized community
c) deserving of the right to vernacular schools
d) that a vernacular school is a right in a society as Malaysia which actually provides an advantage to Indian Malaysians or would advance their economic position.
e) that they have assimilated and integrated into mainstream Malaysia
f) that they in fact do attempt cultural integration but are rejected by the Malays
g) that their problems are induced by the Malaysian government (of which they are an integral part)
h) that they have and continue to actively participate in the democratic processes of government, general elections, local government in its multi-cultural multi party forms without any parochial allegiances driving their political agenda
i) that handouts from the Malay political party is the answer to their perceived problems
j) that they are by themselves unable to foster positive change to their benefit, provide scholarships to deserving individuals in need of it
k) that they are unable as a community without the largesse of the Malay political parties to attend to the welfare of those Indians displaced in the community either as widows, orphans, former rubber estate labourers, divorcees and the disabled.
l) that because government is dominated by Malays, the Indian community in Malaysia as is asserted by their representatives and leaders,is unable to and has not been able to prosper as a result.
We further invite commentary from Malaysian Indians. We ask that they provide their responses without the invectives, slurs or insults that has dominated the quality of their responses to this blog date. It is the reason much of the responses posted by Indian readers of this blog has had to be deleted, much of it for irrelevance and profanity.
Gopal Raj Kumar 
Would you dare challenge the Malays like you have done to the Indians in Malaysia through this topic?
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If there were reason to do so perhaps I would challenge the Malays. Your point is not clear.
This is a challenge directed at Malaysia’s Indian community to prove their assertions often made but never sufficiently substantiated about their ‘plight’.
It is an opportunity to Malaysia’s Indians to substantiate what their leaders for generations have complained about and for which nothing appears to have
been done even by their leaders to correct the situation. Perhaps there isn’t one as they complain of. perhaps there is. But its up to the community to take
this opportunity to provide the proofs of their assertions on each of the points outlined in the post.
Your response perhaps proves the suspicion many have about Malaysia’s Indians. Never too slow to miss an opportunity. Here is an opportunity to take up the
challenge and to make your case. Instead you ask that I challenge the Malays. Missing the point again sir?
GRK
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Comment by ICE sound like a chinese (People’s Republic of Communist China) that has been challenged for claiming himself to be a Malaysian purely because he was born in Malaysia and resides in Malaysia.
In true sense, he is still a CHINESE not a Malaysian.
You are a PENDATANG, ICE, howzat?
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Well, it is you who miss the target, instead of answering a very straight forward question you divert to drag the Chinese into the topic. I call upon you again, dare challenge the Malays, your self exile from Malaysia proves that you are gutless to remain at home and fight the consequences….
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from the structure of your sentence in reply and the grammar you employ you are Chinese. No amount of trying to mask it as a concerned supporter of Malaysiaa’s Indians would change that. Nuff said. Go elsewhere like Singapore with your anti Malay baiting and rhetoric. The complexion of the city states politics will blend with you and yours.
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To what I see the points raised by GRK is a fact & reality. No need to challenge the malays.
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A problem that is recognised has a solution to it.
You have to find it but not by blaming others for it.
The Chinese community would love the divide between
Malays and Indians to continue as it provides
benefits to them and their cause.
GRK
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Me being a Chinese is not important to the topic. You dare challenge the Malaysians of Indian origin with your rhetoric. I challenge the same to you to take the Malays, almost all of them who belong to the Indonesian origin or you have the guts to challenge the same to my brethren the Chinese of China origin and/or you would like to further drag our natives the orang asli’s from the African and/or Monggolian origins. If you do not have the guts to challenge the Malays, at least dare challenge Dr M of the Indian origin who claims himself as a Malay….
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Why have Non-Ice and Gopal Raj Kumar turned this discussion into a racial issue? Be focused, guys!
There is a problem facing the Malaysian Indians. Let’s bring our heads together to solve it instead of bickering over something irrelevant.
Speaking of bringing our heads together, Gopal, though he is no more on Malaysian soil, has stuck his head into this mess to help Malaysian Indians to find their way out. We should be grateful to him for that.
Let’s ponder on his challenge. Can we help ourselves instead of depending on the Malaysian government? How can we help ourselves? Let’s appraise on that.
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Why bother to engage in vetti pechi with characters like Gopal? If this guy wants evidence etc of Indian marginalization, just read sound academic papers and books written by Prof Francis Loh, CPPS (Asli), Aliran, Dr Andrew Willford, Dr S. Nagarajan, Dr K. Anbalagan, Prof P. Ramasamy and Dr Anantha Raman Govindasamy to name just a few.
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Radha
to engage GRK is productive. There is nothing to be lost and much to be gained by contributin
to the challenge. It adds to what others have written aabout the subject and perhaps also challenges
their views. There are other views out there apart from those you have named.
If there is nothing to conceal about providing proofs of assertions made against government and Malays
then the evidence or proofs should provide more ammunition to bring the world community to take heed
of the situation, because the Indians themselves it appears won’t do anything about their problems.
It appears that there is a fear of of dialogue in the Malaysian Indian community lest others should express
views that at odds with the exaggeration put out by their leaders.
GRK
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Why on earth ICE would I have to accept you or your “Challenge”? you are irrelveant other than like a fly at a dinner table you do warrant attention.
You make no contribution to this debate other than to bait Malays. It is a very Malaysian Chinese triat. it is what Theresa Kok, Lim Kit Siang and other political nuetral zones tend to do each time an issue that is topical and that is likely to demolish their “everything that is wrong is because of the Malays” argument arises.
The fact you are Chinese with your attitude of being a distraction when you have no valid argument is relative and relevant.
When people likee you, the Chinese in Malaysia stop complaining and attacking everyone because of their race or religion or backing those that do we could possibly have a half decent discussion. I will not entertain you further moron.
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GKumar, What is your purpose in throwing this challenge. Why are you doing it from Australia?
Will you and your benefactors fund a study, if the studies done so far are not satisfactory to answer the questions you have raised, to get more real answers to your question. I will oversee the study here in Malaysia on the ground.
BTW, I am confused about the intent of your questions – what are you really saying? That thing are nice and dandy for the Indians and the fuss is all imagined.. Is this what you are saying my friend?
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Narangan
the purpose in ‘throwing this challenge’ as you put it is simple.
It is to allow Malaysians of Indian origin to articulate more effectively
than their leaders or those who purport to represent them those issues
they say are adversely affecting them.
Hopefully it will provide the proofs of those assertions that the “Malays and UMNO”
are solely, utterly and uniquely responsible for the ‘plight’ or adverse standing of Malaysia’s Indian
community in Malaysia.
Whether or not I write from the comfort of a unit in Knightsbridge London now or Australia previously
or from a mud hut in Timbuktoo is really irrelvant. No one in the Malaysian Indian or any other community
has any control over my standing to say what I want or write the way I choose to express mysel on this or any other topic
on the basis of my domicile. Unless of course one adopts the very undemocratic stance taken by many of the thuggish and
unrepresentative ‘leaders’ of the Malaysian Indian and Malaysian Chinese communities in this debate (or of others wherever they may be)
there is no prohibition on my throwing this challenge to Malaysia’s Indians (or anyone else for that matter).
Whats important and whats relevant is that there is an opportunity for people to come out independently
and to provide the quality of evidence thus far lacking for to subsantiate the reasons for the ‘poverty’ and
‘economic ‘backwardness’ of Malaysia’s mainly Tamil community oft referred to as the Malaysian
Indian community.
The reasons thus far put forward by its elected and unelcted leaders for the position of the Malaysian Indian have been nothing
more than emotional outbursts, exaggerated claims and threats followed by abuse, racial villification and an overall pathetic,
unrepresentative shrill chorus of madness that does nothing more than to damage the standing of the community.
Giving the benefit of the doubt to the vast majority of Malaysia’s Indian community, we invite commentary on the subject not on the right
of anyone to invite comment. Perhaps this is why there is no evidence of any development in the Malaysian Indian community since independence.
Perhaps it is this slavish caste mindset of thuggery and self inflicted ignorance that prevents the community from developing.
Fear and unnecessary cultural baggage may be the key.
Perhaps the opportunity to jettison that baggage move forward and to openly write about those things that matter instead of villifying all and sundry
and to do so anonymously which is a great thing about the internet, in the face of overwhelming fear of retribution by MIC and Hindraf Thugs could well
resolve those burning issues that continue to undermine the Malaysian Indian community’s progress:
Are the Malays and UMNO therefore responsible for the rights of Indians to properly express themselves and expose the faailings of government or is it
the self inflicted wound of ignorance and a hidden political agenda by a bunch of self serving individuals that is at the root of it.
I now leave it up to you and your friends to respond. Whether or not I reside in Malaysis is irrelevant.
GRK
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Dear GRK,
The answer to your question is very simple.
1) Even Indian’s are stabbing Indian’s in the back for example those who are representating Malaysian Indians.
2) It’s all about getting rich in this country.
3) You are right and I second you. If every Indian is ethical and have pride, maybe there may be some difference but sad to say, many are not.
4) It’s not about helping the people but POWER and GREED.
What you need to realise though is that not that we aren’t willing to voice out but we don’t want to GO TO JAIL for asking for our rights.
Well when the Brit’s handed us our independance and since we are still under the Queen as to speak, voice this questions out to them as I am sure they did not want the Chinese and Indians to be treated like second class citizens. Right?
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I think that you have in some respects addressed the issues faced by many of Malaysia’s Indians (Indians).
They tend to be a fractitious lot often divided along caste and regional lines. Getting rich is what most people are about.
Most go about it in an organized way and are not petty. There are many who voice out their opinions and rely on fact and
do not go to jail. There are many Indians, Malays and Chinese who speak out and remain free citizens.
There are many Chinese who in the opposition say things that are defamatory of others are lies yet remain free.
There are lawyers (many of who are Indians) who say things that are disruptive, dishonest, untrue are an incitement
to others to rebel, revolt and are divisive who need to go to jail. They are often ignored though and remain free.
Balasubramaniam and his lawyers are but two examples of this category of Indians.
Racism and equality is a two way street. Let me know what it is you wish to say. If it is based on fact I am happy to have it published
here on GRK. If it isn’t then you must join the rest of the crowd who believe they are badly done by and simply complain and remain
prisoners of your own ignorance and fantasy.
People who do not try enough who call themselves second class citizens simply because they do not get the hand outs they aspire to
do not deserve any assistance. Help yourself first to what you have and whats available to you. You will find that it beats any government
hand out. You are then truly free.
5 states are in the hands of the opposition which you may have voted for. They have increased opportunities to Chinese Malaysians and ignored you.
Sort them out at the next elections or go demand what you wnat from them which they told you at campaigning they would give you.
First things first. Speak out. I encourage you to. Give me facts that I can publish.
GRK
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GRK,
Why are you so unnecessarily defensive in regards to my question on your being in Australia – three quarters of your note in reply is about that , yet you talk so self righteously) about a meaningful and learned debate.
You still have not answered my question,lest you thought I was not being serious. If all the studies done so far on the position of Indians in the country are not satisfactory to you, then why don’t you and your benefactors fund a study which I will oversee – just on one issue – that of statelessness of Indians in the country. If you are serious about the triuth, why don’t you take this up – instead of just letting of steam .
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Naragan
whats necessarily defensive then? you act as judge jury and executioner here. I do not have to agree with you or be directed by you in anything you believe the question lacks or otherwise. If all of my reply centered on the question of me living in Australia then so be it. Start up a blog of your own if my responses and my challenges annoy you.
Let others write what they want. I will write what I want. On this blog if you write what you want I will still moderate it and reserve my rights as to how I deal with your responses. You have sill not contibuted to taking up the challenge. If you are begging for funds (which is what you appear to be doing here) go elsewhere.
I won’t indulge you anymore. Either put up with a proper response or go seek elsewhere.
GRK
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Welcome back GRK!! It been a while..eh..
“You make no contribution to this debate other than to bait Malays. It is a very Malaysian Chinese triat. it is what Theresa Kok, Lim Kit Siang and other political nuetral zones tend to do each time an issue that is topical and that is likely to demolish their “everything that is wrong is because of the Malays” argument arises.
The fact you are Chinese with your attitude of being a distraction when you have no valid argument is relative and relevant.
When people likee you, the Chinese in Malaysia stop complaining and attacking everyone because of their race or religion or backing those that do we could possibly have a half decent discussion”
Spot on GRK!.. whats up with them, strange species these people…perhaps side effect of years of isolation and anti-Malay conditioning in the SRJKC….
anyway..good to have u back…
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Welcome back GRK,
Initiating a new debate about ethnic Indian community is a welcome move. After all, a lot of community members have prospered so do many are out of development. Its high time, they need to integrate, learn to respect everyone and move forward finding every opportunity. Of course, they are minority but their rights are protected in Malaysia far better than the minorities in India where I live,
who are subject to constant vilification,arrest,torture,their rights trampled,language systematically neglected,progress squeezed,pushed to ghettos under the tag of appeasement or anti-nationals.
Its high time, Indian community throw its caste mindset and linguistic chauvinism, stand shoulder to shoulder with their countrymen,respect their way of life if you can’t agree with them rather than deriding their traditional manners and they need to remember that they can’t look back to India often especially TN, for their forward march.
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The challenge calls for discussion really on those issues the mouth pieces of the Indian community have been
megaphoning, loud hailing for some time now. It is important that they bring it to the surface in detail and particularise
each allegation properly. Failing such they really have no cause to claim they are leaders nor have they the right to
mislead and misdirect the people.
However if and when they do bring forth the evidence of their allegations, there is a moral need for us all to then make these
into issues and to move forward in dealing with each of the issues that apparently hinder the progress or development of
Indians as a minority in Malaysia.
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All people regardless of race, religion, creed or colour, would have within them a disadvantaged lot.
I just came back from a shelter and there were people of all ages. They were at this place for various reasons; kicked out from the house, abusive husband/father, ungrateful children who never came to pick up their parents from the hospital, born disabled, orphaned, widowed, family-less spinster.
Could they have done better? Maybe. Maybe not. Is it any fault of theirs? Maybe. Maybe not.
I had a tough time explaining to my children about being disadvantaged. But nevertheless, I told them that consequences are the result of choices made.
Back to your post. Indians, Chinese, Malays, Ibans, Kadazans, Semais, etc have much to complain about. They have a right to grieve. We can’t all be politicians and enjoy the spoils of the nation. Public Service is a duty to the people, unfortunately, gone are the days of selfless, empathetic, service-minded representatives that worked to bring education, health, welfare, logistics, pride and joy to a young and growing nation.
But it is the job of the people’s representatives to do their work and highlight the plight of those that need help, those who have been cheated of their share, those who are part of the plan but skipped over during delivery. Because, if no one complains, there will be just more and more victims.
So, lets just stop being racial – and fight for fair, and equal rights for all – because we all deserve it. After all, it is the same air that we breathe. The gravity that holds us down is also the same. The earth is a single entity. Maybe it wouldn’t hurt if we all became spiritual but not religious.
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There was nver a time so different to today when people were selfless or empathetic as you suggest. We may be more aware of the rogues in our midst
and short comings of others because of the web and the internet and TV but its still fundamentally a human trait.
“we can’t all be politicians and enjoy the spoils of a nation”. The Towkays the chettiars and the Abangs who have money wealth and prosperity whether by fair means or foul are by far and to a great majority not politicians. Not even if you paid them. What exactly is the point you are trying to make here?
From memory neither Sambanthan nor Manica served anyone well. The same could be said of Tan Siew Sin or the late Tengku often disparagingly referred to as “Bapak China” by his Malay constituents. So who are we referring to in the Malaysian context here? I can only think Mahathir who dragged the country (albeit at some price) to the twentieth century and no one else. Enlighten me please.
No one need be victim especially if they don’t aspire to whats not theirs. if we complain of too many Bumiputeras and NEP preferences how does one make that better by demanding the same thing for the rest? We cannot avoid religious, cultural or race differences as long as we accept the definitions oursleves as being Chinese, Indians and Malays. On the other hand it would be folly to try to den the profiling God has imposed upon us at birth (or make that nature, if you do not believe in God).
GRK
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Hi GRK,
Nice to see you back..
Im a Malay…with some sperm coming from bugis, jawa and Indian on my father’s mother side…
One thing all Indian should know is we Malays never see you as any deferent from us…..except that you go to temple and we go to mosque..we even take part of your culture and made it our own.. ..we wear kain pelikat, we eat curry almost everyday..we go to Indian barber shop (see any Chinese going there?)to have our hair cut..we have almost the same hairstyle..we eat with our hands..no chopstick…, we go to mamak’s restaurant even though we know that most of them are Tamils hindus…
I used to live in railway quarters where both my neighbors were Indians , I even had a bapak angkat india…I always went to his kitchen to eat.. The problem was, both my Indian neighbors …were not best of friends..simply because one was considered higher in social order than the other one…but both of them were my best friends..funny eh…
Just like what GRK said…..who would benefit if we go against each other…..One more thing, why is it when Indian become Christian they forget that they are Tamils… but the Chinese will always be Chinese even if they become Christian.
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You have made some very valid points in your post here today. If anything at all, the Indians and the Malays have more in common amongst themselves than any other group in the region.
Their cultures and histories are inextricably linked to that of the other’s as they are indelibly stamped with the destinies of the other in Malaysia if not in the region.
The Indians however, in Malaysia at least, seem never to be able to overcome that class or caste mence and mentality as an obstacle in their lives. They create a hindrance to their development and advancement then blame the rest of the world for it.
GRK
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After reading thru and reading thru the comments, I kinda feel lost . So, if ICE is called PENDATANG, the same would be refered to your brethen GRK, right, but they care not to admit it, thats the problem! The malays took a short cut to achieved independence. what if we took the long route, where do you think they’ll be?
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Which comments do you refer to? ICE can only be called ICE. If he is called pendatang then it is his duty to respond and to either acknowledge it if he accepts the term (in which case he need not respond) or rebut the call. Who are my brethren? There may be a different scale or standard applied to the Malaysian Indians if thats who you refer to as my ‘brethren’. Whether they care to admit to whatever it is you refer to is their call not mine. I still do not get where it is you are coming from or what particular post you refer to.
As to the Malay short cut to independence, what would you describe as the long route then? Chin Peng? That was not a route to independence but to death and slavery in the name of a political ideology thats been discredited over and over again. The independence of Malaya was negotiated by three racial groups with the British through their respective political representatives. Whether these were truly representative of each of those racial communities is quite something else.
GRK
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If wishes were horses then beggars would ride. A pendatang is a pendatang.
GRK
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Apologies, it was Non_ICE who said ICE was/is a pendatang. Not the Chin Peng route, but the Indonesian route, I suppose.
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enuff said, what ever happened to HINDRAFS agenda of wanting to sue the Queen and obtain a million each for every indian in Malaysia? Boy, that sure stir them to their direction, did’nt it? ICE gone cold heheeh, I had a nagging question but as soon as I started, I lost it. maybe next time GRK,, keep it up..
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Hindraf has a roving diplomat in the UK living off the miseries of his people who sacrificed a lot on 27 November 2007.
They are a spent force having spent all the accumulated political caital of that one event. It is a family affair and one which
none of their leaders are content with sharing with others. They have no succession plan, no capacity to train leaders of the future
nor any real plan of action other than to borrow cliches from other people’s struggles calling their self induced plight ‘ethnic cleansing’.
Emotions alone don’t make for good leaders. maybe Palanivel needs a chance at re organizing the Indian community. Certainly not a bunch
of ‘roving ambassadors’ who do nothing but chant slogans and are irrelevant.
GRK
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Sir, Gopal im a student from Negeri Sembilan.I just want to conform that Indian Community giving out anything for straight A students in PMR 2010
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If you could express yourself in a way that could be understood it would help. I hope you are not suggesting that
you are a straight A’s student. I honestly do not know what it is you are trying to say. Try getting some help with your
English. It may well be you are struggling to say something that is important to us all.
GRK
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